Ethnographers:
Chris
Rachael
Evocative Description: I met Catherine for the first time in her new place. I had learned a little bit about Catherine prior to the interview, from listening to the audio of her first interview. A few weeks ago, she was living in a homeless shelter. When I met her for this interview, Catherine was 77 days clean from crack. I interviewed Catherine at her new place, that she moved into the day prior. Bags that have yet to be unpacked were still in the sitting on the floor of her new home, which was once an old office connected to a home. It consisted of a bedroom, a sitting area and private entrance outside. Catherine greeted me at the door with joy, still in her pajama pants that she wore as a way to celebrate having her own place. We sat down to do the interview in her sitting area. She was very warm, welcoming and talkative throughout the whole process.
Catherine, now 69 years old, grew up with her parents and 2 sisters. She was born into a family of entertainers. She is a lesbian, which created tensions for her in high school. She touched on her teenage years, when she decided to live on her own.
We were all singers. My mother and father were both professional singers... I used to be an entertainer; I sang from the time I was 16 until I was 56. I did Jazz and Broadway show tunes, and I sang in a lot of casinos down here and the Jockey Club, which is not there anymore… I was born in Hoboken I came down here (Atlantic City) when I was 13. I went down to Atlantic City High for a year maybe two. Then we moved back to Jersey City and I quit school and my father said, “Oh really? Well, there’s the door knob don’t come back till you have a job” ... So, I was 16 and I got a really good job and that’s when I got my working papers and my cabaret license. I had to have a cabaret license to work in a night club…I sang in some big night clubs when I was 16. I always sang and that’s my gift from God. Singing and being funny I’m a very funny broad…. It was great, truly great. I’d love to do it again.
Before she found out about her personal diagnosis with HIV, she had witnessed multiple friends and acquaintances get sick and die from the virus.
All these fellas at my work had HIV or AIDS… I had been working in a place, where most of the people there were all gay men. It was at ‘Telecharge,’ they sell Broadway show tickets over the phone. Most of the guys were gay, that were dancers and actors in Broadway shows, so a lot of them had it (AIDS). One fella, he was 31 years old and every day he would come in with Kaposi Sarcoma. It’s like a brown stain on your skin but it’s furry and that’s how you can tell you got it. I mean it’s a rarity for some people but he would come in everyday with something on his face. And then one day he was dead… Another time we went out one night, my ex and I, and three or four other people all crammed in the backseat. We went up to the Bronx to get some coke, cause that’s where the coke was really good. We were with a kid named Lance and Lance was sick. We were laughing and scratching, we were just having a ball. That next day I went into work and a fella said to me “Lance died last night”. He died right after we dropped him off.
Addiction and HIV
Catherine’s history of drug addiction resulted in her HIV diagnosis, but not in the way one would think.
When I was 50 my mom died. I stayed in her apartment for a few weeks after but then my sisters threw me out, cause I sold a lot of my mom’s stuff. So, I moved into this God horrible room, in this God horrible building. I was friends with man named John Michael Eugene, who was a Catholic Priest in Hoboken, and he got me the room and paid the rent for a few months. I was in this room and I was smoking crack. I was receiving social security and I didn’t know how to make money. I didn’t panhandle but I did get in and out of cars, if you catch my drift. So, I got in a car with this man, that was soft-spoken and kind of tender in a way. He started to come by maybe 3 or 4 times a month, to my small, really crummy room but he had full blown AIDS.
She paused, took a deep breath and continued.
I found out I had it by him leaving his bag, you know those little waist things? Well, he had one and he left it in my room and I looked through it to see if I could find a phone number and call him and say “come and get this shit, I don’t want it”. And he had a prescription in there, for Crixivan. Crixivan, is an incredibly toxic medication that they used at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic. So, when I saw that, I already knew… The first thing that came out of my mouth was that I killed myself, I figured I killed myself, I am gonna die of AIDS, like right now… I had no idea, that was over 20 years ago.
After finding out that she did in fact have the HIV virus, Catherine continued to smoke crack and prostituted to support her drug habit.
When I was jumping in and out of cars, I know letting somebody pick me up, I knew I was detectable. Detectable means, I’m transmittable. And I would do something without a condom. It’s inexcusable. I was in this horrendous room and I met this young Spanish kid names Juan... He only lived down the block. He would come and see me 2 or 3 times a week. He would always use a condom but as the relationship went on, we didn’t… That was right when I started seeing this other dude and I got sick immediately. I mean normally it takes a while to get and show symptoms, but I got sick immediately. All I could think of was oh my God, I killed this kid… I felt so deadly and so guilty. I couldn’t get it out of my mouth to tell him. But I prayed to God it was untransmutable and I was off the hook because he was such a sweet fellow.
During the second interview, Catherine revisited this story to further explain.
He was just a doll and I didn’t know that I had been with this dude, the one who left his bag at my house and it (HIV) showed up pretty fast. I went into a rehab maybe a year, not even, after I first realized I had been exposed
Less than a year after finding out she had been exposed to the virus, Catherine entered an inpatient drug rehab center, in Patterson, New Jersey. She found out about her status while being stigmatized by the health official, who assumed she used needles.
The health official in Patterson came to a NA meeting at the rehab I was in. He just came up, pointed at me and said “I want to talk to you”. This guy I am talking about, he is a real a jerk off. He calls me into this room and just says exactly like this, “your positive you know”, that’s all he said. I told him, no I didn’t know and he said “well, you were using needles, right?”, I told him no I never did. He said well, you got it from sex, then right? talking to me like I was a piece of crap!
After being diagnosed, Catherine established fears that she had heard through others. She first reached out to her friend, a nun who had experience working with HIV during the first epidemic, in Nigeria. As she reflected back to the phone conversation she had, you could hear the fear she had in her voice.
When I found out I had it, I called sister Alicia. She had been a teacher for a grade school in Nigeria in the 80’s. During that time, AIDS was so rapid in Africa, they were just dropping like flies on the ground. The children, there were millions of orphans, from their parents just dying. So, when I said sister, I just found out I got HIV, the first words out of her mouth were “oh Catherine, you are going to suffer”, because she had seen the worse of it. She had no idea; I had no idea that there was hope… Anyways, sister said I would suffer but I haven’t, I really haven’t. The only thing I would say is when I was first diagnosed, I was afraid of what I have heard others say. Like I was afraid I would get the cold, then I would get the flu, then phenomena, then I would die, then it would be over… oh my god, all that dramatic bullshit, but now I feel great
Life After the Diagnosis
Catherine stopped using Crack this past summer (2019), almost 6 months ago. She is now dealing with her conscious coming back and the battle to gain back everything she has lost over the years.
I laid it all off to doing drugs but the person doing drugs has to take responsibility. But it took me a long time to learn these things. A long time to learn my responsibility and how when I was jumping in and out of cars, I know letting somebody pick me up and I knew I was detectable. And I would do something without a condom. It’s inexcusable. Until you know I drew a conscious. How dare I!? How dare I do that this someone? .... I definitely I lost my Soul. But I am getting that back and I’m getting everything else back. Little by little.
After being diagnosed with HIV and struggling with her addiction, Catherine did not only have to face the loss of material objects, but the loss of family and their support. While in the homeless shelter, during her first interview, she discussed her relationship with her family.
If my mom was alive and my dad was alive, they would beat me between an inch of my life for getting HIV. I was in jail for the last days of my mom’s life, I was in jail for the last 37 days of my own mothers’ life…This past summer I started calling my sister and saying, Well, I’m not getting high as often as I did. And she was like, Well, yeah, yeah call me back when you’re done; but I couldn’t take it another day... While I was getting high, my sister Bobby didn’t talk to me cause, well, I don’t blame her… but we are very close now, thank God.
Although her family support is limited, Catherine has utilized support and resources in the Atlantic City area for her HIV and drug addiction.
I have been going to the weekly support meetings for HIV and my N.A. meetings. I mean, yeah, I am at the shelter now but I just applied to HOPWA. They are an organization through the AIDS alliance, they provide housing opportunities with people with AIDS. They are going to pay my rent forever.
When I left the shelter, I felt very badly. One of the girls that came to stay in the shelter said to me “I know you got the virus and I was just diagnosed with HIV”. I said, alright look, here’s what you are going to do, and I told her where to go, who to talk to, tell them I sent you, they will take care of you But you have to understand, that I believe in God and he believes in me. And I know that he sends me to places, so I sent her to Oasis, right on Tennessee Ave.
Her faith in God has also become a huge support system since getting clean.
I was on the corner of Tennessee and Pacific one day. It’s a corner where you can get any drug in the world, but there is also the Father Benedict house there. The three sisters live there, Sister Ann, Sister Kiara and Sister Joseph, Anyways, I was turned around and there they were. They have adopted me and they have been dear, dear friends ever since. I would do anything for them, they have changed my life completely… I have nowhere to go for the holidays, I’m never invited to my family’s houses. So, I am trying to volunteer with the sisters. Every Tuesday and Thursday, they serve coffee, donuts and love, truly lots of love. I just love them to death and they love me. And I went to confession for the first time in 10 years.
Catherine has remained undetectable through her medication that she takes once a day. She was very forthcoming about not having any symptoms or side effects from her HIV medication. Although she does not experience symptoms from HIV or side effects from her medication, she does acknowledge a variety of other health issues.
I’ve got HIV, which I guess is bad enough but it doesn’t affect me. I have to say that I don’t have any side effects from the meds and I only take one pill a day, Triumeq. I was taking another medication for years but it was doing something to my liver, so they stopped that and I switched Triumeq. The only thing is sometimes my HIV medication can affect my other medication so you have to be careful of that… But it’s never actually negatively impacted my life, ever besides that. I’m not sick from it. I got it but I’m not sick from it. And when I don’t take my meds I get detectable. Otherwise I have been undetectable for the longest. I’ve had it for 20 years and um I guess, I guess the word is exasperates the other problems I have. I have, I’ve always had arthritis since I’m seven, serious arthritis, but now it is absolutely brutal. And especially since I got clean. Now I can feel everything. I wasn’t getting high before, but it was numbing the pain, but now oh God it’s horrible, horrible horrible. Especially in my hands and my legs. So, um I guess it’s making it a little worse. But I don’t think it has anything to do with it (HIV). So, this past Monday I went to the rheumatologist for the first time in 200 years and he ordered blood work and x-rays and I have to go back to him Wednesday. On Tuesday, I went to Pomona hospital and had minor heart surgery. I had a stent put in my heart. I’ve had 5 serious heart attacks, 3 majors, knock you right out box, the heart attacks and 2 that were like ahh, and you tell them, I had 5 stents, and a triple bypass. And I got a cerebral embolism. And I have HIV. So, I got a couple of issues. But I feel great, you know what I’m saying, it doesn’t bother me. The arthritis bothers me.
Despite being diagnosed with the virus almost twenty years ago, Catherine still experiences the stigma associated with HIV.
It still has a stigma… because people don’t talk enough about the disease.
When my sister left her husband, she was going with this other fellow for a while and moved in with him. He had three kids, young adults basically, and my sister had her two kids living with them. The first time I went there, I had dinner with them and he was fine. The second time I was going to come over, my sister invited me for Thanksgiving but he said “No, I don’t want my children to get AIDS, sorry I am not having her here”. Now one, AIDS and HIV are not even the same thing. Two, it is NOT easy to transmit and three, it is especially not easy for women to transmit it! My sister said “what!” but she didn’t want to start anything on the holiday and also, her kids were young at the time too, so I was out there doing nothing for Thanksgiving other than crying my eyes out, all alone, getting high. She tried saying she drove all the way to Atlantic City looking for me, but I didn’t see her…
Like, it’s only a disease, I didn’t get it off amazon… What can you get me for Christmas, a telescope, you can get me some HIV, you can get me some books what the fuck is wrong with people for crying out loud?... I don’t know WHY I got it! Well, now I know why- because it was God’s punishment, or a blessing, or a lesson, or a gift, or just a matter of fact, I don’t know, just like a yeah you got it.